Excerpted from the transcript of the Oct 19, 2006 Gubernatorial Candidates' Debate. Patrick supports raising the cap on charter schools and Healey calls for turning all schools into charter schools! We've come a long way!!!

From the Oct 19, 2006 Gubernatorial Candidates' Debate

Moderator: All right, now we are going to a slight change in format. I'm going to ask a general question and then the candidates will have a chance to talk among themselves- as if they haven't been doing that already, right? But they'll have a chance to conduct a free-spirited discussion among themselves. By lot, the first question does go to Mr. Patrick. Mr. Patrick, you talked about the need for change. I'd like to ask you sir, about the change in public education. This question: when you were young, you won a scholarship to go off to the Milton Academy. You essentially won a ticket out of poorly-performing public schools to go to a private school where you blossomed and you have a stirring life story. Why sir, then are you so opposed to giving tickets to children who are now in public schools in Massachusetts who might want to go to a charter school or they might want a voucher. Do they deserve tickets out too?

Patrick: Well, I'll tell you, first of all, I'm not opposed to charter schools. I think they have a critical role to play in education reform. We've been on this journey, I think we ought to continue on this journey.

Moderator: Right, but what about the question- there's a lid, as you know, on charter schools. You're opposed to lifting the lid.

Patrick: I'm coming to that and I think we can lift the cap on the number of charter schools, David, when we fix the funding formula, and it's broken right now. What it creates is an unnecessary and I think, unhelpful tension between the families of the kids in district schools- traditional public schools- and the families of kids in charter schools. And it disserves both. It seems to me that if the state is going to support this element of education reform- and I think that's important- then the state has to step up and provide the kind of funding that makes both charter schools and district schools flourish. That's one point. Second point I'd make is, I want the best innovations that come from the best charter schools- and they're not all great, but the best of them- to be imported into the district schools- whatever that takes. And I will tell you, having talked with teachers and parents and kids, frankly, who are in the district schools, and many who are in the charter school movement- they want that collaboration, too. That's a leadership issue.

Ross: Yeah, I think Deval, it's interesting when I hear you say things like that because I've been in many debates with you and that's the first time I've heard you say that maybe someday we'll lift the cap. It's the same thing you did with the MCAS because early on you were saying that you didn't think the MCAS was serving a purpose, and now I hear you say, "I've always been clear that we should have the MCAS exam."

Patrick: I thought you were a better listener.

Ross: I've listened very carefully, Deval.

Healey: I'm hearing the same thing, Grace.

Ross: And I think other people have, too. And in fact. I've had people who were supporters of yours come to me and say that they supported you because of your position on the MCAS and they are very unhappy to see you move, so what I want to say about this is that we have serious education problems- we can focus on the charter schools or we can focus on the vast number of kids who are in our public schools, and that's where our focus needs to be. We need to put the money back into those schools, we need to lift the MCAS as the only promotion and graduation requirement because it's hurting lots of our kids. And we can argue about tenth grade test scores, but the fact of the matter is our drop-out rates match the implementation of that program.

Healey: I haven't had a chance to speak yet, so let me go ahead, please. There are some real difference between the way Deval Patrick would implement changes in our school system, and the things that I think are important. I agree that charter schools are critically important to making sure that kids have a chance. And we've just seen through the MCAS scores that are coming out of some of our underperforming schools for African-American kids and Latino kids, that they are improving at four and five times the rate of the rest of the state because they've had that opportunity- not only to have MCAS, but many are in wonderful charter schools that are addressing the needs of kids in our inner-cities and it is critical that you don't give in to the teachers unions on this issues. I know that the teachers unions don't like charter schools, that they're concerned about the competition, that they're concerned about the funding. But you know what? It is important that we have a competition between our public schools and it's critical that you recognize that charter schools are public schools. Every child has the right- how many kids do you think are on waiting lists right now, Deval, waiting to go to charter schools.

Patrick: A lot.

Healey: 15,000. There are only 17,000 kids in charter schools and there are 15,000 kids out there who are waiting to get in. We need to create those schools. We don't need to be putting up blocks to getting those schools, we need to be promoting them. And you know what? It's all the public's money.

Patrick: First of all, you're right. It is all the public's money, and who wouldn't be on a list for a charter school if we're walking away from the district schools?

Healey: Let's make them all charter schools.

Patrick: What we need to do is make them all sing. What we have to do is make them all sing.

Healey: What's wrong with that? If they're good schools, what's wrong with that?

Ross: You cut the funding for the remedial help for a lot of the folks who are trying to pass the MCAS. You aren't interested into putting money into the schools that serve most of the people of Massachusetts.

Healey: First of all, that's wrong.

Patrick: Well, let me be clear. First, to Grace, our education plans have been out for nearly a year. We've been supporting MCAS all along. My view is that the MCAS is not enough. We ought to be about educating the whole child and not just about success on a standardized test. That's not a complete education. MCAS ought to be a graduation requirement, but it's just one element of how we evaluate the progress of children.

Mihos: Just one issue- when we're starving the local municipalities of funding and teachers are getting laid off, their support services are getting laid off, libraries are being closed in certain parts of the Commonwealth. This administration has taken over $2 billion out of local aid. That's why everybody's lining up to go to charter schools- because you're killing public education in the Commonwealth.

Healey: Christy, charter schools are public education. They're just a better form of public education.